Is the cross just a sick and depraved act? Let’s talk about it on Deeper Waters.
Recently, this video was brought to my attention. Be warned that it does contain strong profanity for all interested as well as some disturbing images. I put it up here just so that readers can make sure I have given an accurate representation of the video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXXgUpv7APE
Now lately, I’ve spent much time blogging about how we have the gospel wrong. We have taken a part of it, forgiveness, which is an important part, and made it the whole deal.
When John the Baptist and Jesus showed up teaching the gospel, most people were not thinking about forgiveness. The Jewish system already had a way set up where you could receive forgiveness and there was no major need to replace it. Of course, some did come for forgiveness as Jesus was showing how forgiveness would work in the Kingdom, but Jesus did not preach an unheard of concept. All the Jews knew about forgiveness.
Jesus taught something greater. He taught that the plan of Israel was coming to a fruition. God was about to act to rectify the problem. What problem is that? It is the problem of sin and evil and death. Our teaching today tends to ask about the cross “What does it do for me?” It is foreign for us to think about the rest of the world.
So in replying to the producer of the vid, who based on his name I will just call BD for short, we will need to keep this in mind. Nowhere is there any material about the kingdom of God in the video, or about the problem of evil, or anything about the story of Israel.
Note also something else important that never shows up in the video. Never do we see an argument against the existence of God. We do not see an argument that shows that the resurrection did not happen. It is as if BD just wants to hit us with an emotional attack and make us not think about the real claim. If God exists and if Jesus did rise, then Christianity is true and that must be dealt with.
So let’s deal with some errant concepts that show up.
BD has a terrible rendition of the Trinity where the Son is the reincarnation (How can there be a reincarnation without a first incarnation) of the Father. However, he also uses the classic Bill Maher type of argumentation where God sends Himself to sacrifice to Himself, Himself to solve the problem that He Himself created.
If BD does not want to be a Christian. Fine. If he wants to think the Trinity is nonsense. Fine. Yet in all of this, at least get the concept right. If someone wants to be an atheist, at least seek to be an informed atheist. When I see a misrepresentation of the Trinity in this way I automatically know this is someone who doesn’t know what he’s talking about. A good library would have volumes that would help give BD some understanding of the Trinity even if he doesn’t believe in it.
BD also wishes to point out that some people have suffered worse than Jesus. This is not being denied. But so what? BD assumes the worst part of the crucifixion was the pain of the cross. Of course the cross was physically painful, but it was more designed to be socially painful. It was designed to shame the criminal before others and thus give the notion to anyone else watching that “Maybe you don’t want to do what this guy did.”
Furthermore, Jesus being shamed was said thus to be a traitor to Rome and to be under the curse of YHWH. This is what makes the resurrection so important. The resurrection is the vindication of the claim of Jesus to be the King of Israel. It is God raising Him up so He can rule, since a dead king cannot rule the Kingdom of God. It is a reversal of the shame and God giving Jesus the place of highest honor.
So what about that sacrifice? How could it be a sacrifice if Jesus knew He was coming back? When something was offered to God, God could do with it what He wanted. Jesus had to face shame and death as it was entirely to take on the full curse for us. (If you remember, Genesis 3 has a little something about a curse) In facing death and shame head on, Jesus is able to overcome them for us. He is able to rectify the problems of evil, death, and sin.
This is why the story of Israel is so important. Genesis 3 is not an accidental test. It sets the whole tone of the Bible from then on. It’s not the case that the story of Abraham has nothing to do with that. The story has everything to do with it. Abraham’s role is to help restore that which was lost. Over and over, man fails at the attempt to rule as God desires, until finally Jesus comes who is able to do that.
Well couldn’t God just forgive? Not exactly. God is the greatest good and thus has the greatest honor. If God decides He won’t punish sin, then He is not treating Himself as the greatest good. He is being inconsistent. If He does this just for us, then it is akin to idolatry.
God must be just. That must mean there must be some punishment given for sin. BD wishes to make it be that God delights in punishing us. If that was the case, then one wonders why forgiveness would be offered at all. If God just wanted to punish us, He could have been eternally just and never sent Jesus and no one could say “You’ve done wrong.” God is under no obligation to forgive anyone or even provide a way of forgiveness.
Of course, BD has the idea of Hell as a torture chamber. Is he truly unaware that there are many different views of Hell, including ones that see it as eternal conscious torment, that are not torture chamber motifs? This includes my own view that sees Heaven and Hell as not physical locations, but as relational realities. The same sun that melts wax hardens clay. The love of God that melts the hearts of the repentant hardens the hearts of those opposed.
In conclusion, we note that BD has not given any arguments against the central truths of Christianity but has chosen to speak (Quite ignorantly) of the parts he does not understand. Once again, if someone wants to be an atheist, be one, but at least be informed in your atheism.
In Christ,
Nick Peters
The Trinity in The Bible
January 31, 2010Hello everyone and welcome back to Deeper Waters where we are diving into the Ocean of Truth. We’ve just finished our Trinitarian Commentary so I thought we should go and take a look at how our whole project went overall. First though, I ask for my usual prayer requests. I first off ask that you pray for me for my continued Christlikeness and that I won’t have as much anxiety and worry in my life. Second, I ask for prayers in my financial situation. Third, I ask for prayers in a third related area of my life. God knows. For now, let’s see what we learned in our look through the Bible.
I certainly hope you learned a lot. I know I did. We’ve been through several verses and seen how they point to the doctrine of the Trinity. Even if a verse did not teach the whole Trinity with great strength, we found that there were several pieces that went together and helped form this doctrine.
That’s something that needs to be remembered in this. We are not talking about a doctrine that is just one verse in the whole of Scripture that settles everything. Too often in our studies of the Bible, we think there ought to be one verse that settles everything. In reality, that is rarely the case and the more important the doctrine, the more Scripture we will need.
However, a comment on a recent blog had the commenter pointing to Col. 1:15 and Rev. 3:14 and saying that Jesus was created. The problem is that those are verses that we have to explain. Sure. Of course, we also saw that those verses can be explained and they form a coherent whole. However, it’s the Arian or the modalist that has to explain several other verses.
The reason is that this is a systematic doctrine. It’s formed not by looking at one verse, but seeing the whole tapestry of Scripture. What does the Bible say about who God is? What does the Bible say about who Jesus is? What does the Bible say about who the Holy Spirit is? When we get through all of these questions, we find the Trinity is there. The church did this right. We can try to re-invent the wheel all we want, but we will end up with the Trinity also.
So what do we do? From here, we learn about what the Trinity means. Does God tell us who he is for no reason? Is the Trinity going to be a doctrine that we just use to beat up Jehovah’s Witnesses regularly? Or rather, is the doctrine of God going to be something dynamic in our lives that changes how we live everyday?
Tomorrow, I would like to start looking at that some in to how the doctrine of the Trinity relates to us. What difference will it make in our lives? After all, if we learn a doctrine, that’s good, but if the doctrine doesn’t make any change in our lives, it’s only a means for increasing our arrogance.
We will start tomorrow.
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