Welcome back everyone to Deeper Waters where we are diving into the ocean of truth. It’s been a really busy weekend so I apologize for not having any blogs up. I hope I can get enough breathing room tomorrow that I can really catch up on them. Anyway, I am continuing of course the study into the Watchtower and their booklet of “Should You Believe In The Trinity?” Tonight, we’re going to look more at the topic of Jesus continuing subordinate.
The Watchtower asks how if Jesus had been God he could have been exalted to a higher place. It’s really simple. In Philippians, Jesus had himself submitted to a lower place when he took on the form of a servant. Because he was righteous as a servant, he was given a throne from which to rule. His exaltation points to the exaltation that we will have later as we will share in the glory. The victory of Christ becomes our victory.
The Watchtower says that in Hebrews, we are told that Jesus appeared before God on our behalf. They ask that if you appear in someone’s presence, how can you be that person? You cannot.
To which, every Trinitarian says, “Amen.”
This is again the assumption of unipersonalism that the Watchtower makes. They assume that God is one person and then state, “Jesus appeared before God, therefore Jesus is not God because Jesus is distinct from the one person of God.”
But if you just say “Jesus appeared before the Father”, the problem disappears. This is exactly what we say as Trinitarians.
Then, Acts 7 is referred to where Stephen is said to see two individuals and no Holy Spirit.
Although I was wondering just how one was supposed to see a Spirit. I suppose since Elisha’s servant couldn’t see the angels until his eyes were opened, that meant that they weren’t there.
Once again, I have no problem with Acts 7, although I wonder what the Watchtower will do with it since they also make a point about verses like John 1:18 that say that no one has ever seen God. Are they saying that Stephen literally saw God in his divine vision?
In Revelation, Jesus has to take the scroll from God, therefore, says the Watchtower, Jesus is not God.
Because we all know in centuries of Christian history no one ever noticed that part.
Or could it be that the Son was being displayed as one worthy and thus the action takes place that way. Keep in mind that this is apocalyptic literature. By the standards of the Watchtower, we can suppose that Jesus is literally a lamb based on how this happens. Note that in Revelation 5 at the end, all creation worships He who sits on the throne and the Lamb. The Lamb is not included in creation.
While the Watchtower quotes a source later, they do not state where in the source their information can be found. However, in it, I simply see the same mistakes we’ve already dealt with. The Watchtower is making the assumption of unipersonalism. The sad reality is that Christians are swayed by this.
Don’t be one of them. Don’t let your neighbor be one either.
We shall continue next time.
Deeper Waters 
March 14, 2011 at 10:12 -04:00Mar |
Hey Nick,
Great post bro. I have been dealing with these guys for the last two years. It’s funny how quickly they falter after you logically defeat there sales pitch. Also I have been going through one of their magazines it’s funny they make truth claims without any reference and quote theologians without giving the names of who they are quoting. I guess they are trying to appeal to scholarship, sad thing is the scholars they quote disavowal them, thus why they don’t give the names. Funny. Anyways, I hope what your readers get out of this is a better eye in watching their subtle claims, that really have no backing.
March 16, 2011 at 10:12 -04:00Mar |
Subordination of Jesus: Paul states he had equality with God but gave it up and appeared as a servant for your benifit. Philippians.
Philipians 2:6
“Who being in very nature God did not consider equality with God something to be grasped but made himself nothing taking the very nature of a servant and being made in human likeness, and being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death–even death on a cross.” Philipians 2:6-8 (NIV).
Anti-Trinitarians complain about this translation because they content that the word for “nature” (Morphe) should be translated as form. A huge argument then must ensue about the meaning of the word. In fact most translations do say “from,” “who being in the very form of God…” How it is that one can be in the form of God and not be God I don’t know. But I will deal with this issue shortly. First some other things must be observed:
March 16, 2011 at 10:12 -04:00Mar |
that statement “i will deal with this shortly,” is form my own pages on Doxa. Hope you don’t mind.
I really dig your study on the Trinity here. Just trying to help out.